Does Your EcoBoost Shudder? Here’s the Problem
Have you been having shuddering issues with your Ecoboost engine? Are you suddenly losing power? You are not alone, Ford is working on fixing the problem. What is the problem? Condensation.
Many Ford F-150 pickups with EcoBoost have a condition where the vehicle shudders or stalls during normal use. In the most severe of cases, the truck will actually go into “limp mode” causing the engine to lose all power. This issue seems to be primarily from humid states like Texas and Florida.
Ford has a growing issue here with more and more owners encountering this problem and they say they are working on a solution.
What’s Causing the Problem
After doing research by talking with Ford employees, auto technicians and reading through various forums, the cause seems to be the Charge Air Cooler (CAC).
This CAC cooler cools the intake air as it goes through the turbocharger. This cooled air then travels into the engine. The problem seems to be that the CAC is working too well and is causing condensation to build up inside the air intake tube.
Here’s the sequence of events.
- Air is drawn through the CAC and moisture collects inside the tubing. Most often this happens when traveling down the interstate when air flow into the motor is relatively slow.
- Sudden acceleration by the driver, changes the intake air flow rate through the CAC which causes the engine to pull in more air. With the moisture sitting in the intake tube, the engine is acting like a vaccum sucking up all this water.
- Depending on the amount of water that is sucked up causing the vehicle to have different responses. A small amount causes shuddering. A large amount causes the truck to go into limp mode to protect it from damage.
What does this have to do with humid areas? Those drivers live in an area where the dew point is equal to the ambient temperature for much of the time. This means condensation occurs more often causing more issues.
The Fix
While there are no doubt quick fixes on the internet, Ford is planning on issuing a technical service bulletin soon to address the issue. They are currently working on redesigning the CAC to handle times of excess moisture. Be on the look out for this TSB.
Looking for more information? This forum has lots of information about the problem.
well i hate to add, but i live in PA. i have a 2013 ecoboost and ive been experianceing the same problem multiple times starting with 800 miles i now have 2300 miles and its being held at the dealer for yet another round of parts even if they fix this problem whats the long term look for my motor after drinking all this water/condensation im scared this is not going to be a pleasant thing..
Don,
I understand your concern and I am not sure what Ford will do. I suspect though that if they thought it would have long-term consequences that they would have said so. It seems more likely that the “shudder” issue is really just what happens when the engine protects itself. So, if the engine protected itself correctly, you probably won’t see any long-term issues.
Best of luck!
-Tim
Don,
I have a 2012 Eco Boost. It has the shuddering problem at the absolute worst times, like when you arte pulling out to pass someone. I live in the mountains of Tennessee where humidity isn’t a big problem, especially in the winter. My truck had one of its many shuddering instances about a month ago. This time it st error codes indicating that I was misfiring on cylinders 5 & 6 plus another random misfire. I took it in to my local dealership and they told me about the bulletin, but said it was drivable and they would call me when the parts came it. These parts include: a new catalytic converter, air diverter to put more air through the turbos, and a larger turbo intercooler. When last I checked, they were saying after March. That’s 3 months minimum.
As for moisture being the culprit, I call BS. The shuddering has happened to me on warm, dry summer days. The problem is that Ford didn’t do any field testing and the intercooler is undersized; therefore the air going into the turbos is too hot. This super hot intake air causes early detonation, which can damage the turbos, engine and apparently the catalytic converter. When the Ford dealer sent me home with a “drivable” truck, they told me to be careful not to give it too much gas. I finally got in touch with the regional rep for Ford and he said that despite my having paid for an extended warranty, I wasn’t entitled to a loaner, because my truck was drivable. I ask him if I could still pull my 8000+ lbs travel trailer through the mountains, he said that he wouldn’t recommend it. So much for the 11,300 lb max tow package.
I am trying desperately to get out from under this Ford POS. The problem is that even though I put a good bit down on this truck when I bought it 5 months ago, I’m still upside down on it, because the dealers are aware of this very widespread problem and they won’t give you anything for them in trade. I’m so desperate, I have even been looking at Toyota Tundras.
I hope you don’t get screwed like I did.
Sincerely,
Kevin Bridges
I am in the same boat here in Spokane. The dealer, Wendle Ford wont do anything for me, and even told me that it wasnt worth much for a trade in and that they didnt want a non-functional truck in their lot either. Like I do! they certainely knew about hese problems when I bought it last year, but never toldme anything about it in hopes of just making a sale and then leaving me out to dry. I have always beena loyal Ford owner/driver, but those days are about to end.
Stay away from the Ecoboost. It’s all hype and no substance. I have a 2013 two months old and it has had multiple issues. One of which is falling flat on its face when passing or merging into traffic. This truck is going to get someone hurt and an inexperienced driver killed. Don’t let your teenager drive it please!!! I love the F150 brand and have owned seven new ones. 5.4 motor nothing special but was a very dependable. 6.2 awesome motor no issues . Ecoboost dangerous!!
Brian,
Thanks for commenting.
-Tim
amen brother!!!
I *had* a 2012 Ford Edge with the Eco-Boost engine. I too experienced the hesitation of several seconds of no response at all when trying to rapidly accelerate, which is necessary when pulling out in traffic, passing, entering the highway. The car would also over-idle and accelerate jerkily without the gas pedal being engaged.
In December, 2012 a car ran a red light and hit me, totaling both cars. I saw the car coming and floored the gas to try to get out of the way. The car did not respond to the acceleration. Luckily no one was hurt but I believe I could have avoided the accident if the car had responded when the gas pedal was floored.
Angela,
Glad you are OK! Sounds like a scary experience.
-Tim
I must be one of the lucky ones. I have a 2011 Ford F-150 with almost 30k miles. No problems whatsoever. I live in Colorado where the air is a bit thinner and drier and last month installed a cold air intake system on it. Love the truck!
However, I’m planning on moving to Florida in a couple of years so I’m hoping the higher humidity won’t cause some problems. If the problems are legit, I’m certain Ford will come up with a no-cost solution.
I have a 2012 Ford F150 King Ranch. This vehicle is currently at a dealership and has been at a dealership twice now for the eco-shudder or moisture problem. The first visit to the dealership was for troubleshooting because nobody had heard of the issue. The second visit was to install TSB 12-6-4 (intercooler deflector, and PCM/TCM reprogramming).
The TSB did not fix the problem! Yesterday I was driving the truck through periods of heavy rain and fog and the truck shuddered and loss power several times. This time, a check engine light was registered (first time this has happened). Also, at one of my stops, I noticed steam coming from the hood of the truck as if the truck was overheated. I tried to find the source of the steam but was unable. All of the truck gauges showed normal temperatures/ranges.
The dealership called me tonight to say that the intercooler needs replacing. Two-three days for the parts and repair. (Frustrating!!!)
I agree with Brian. This is a safety issue and Ford needs to address this! The first time happened to me when I was accelerating to get in front of a tractor trailer on an interstate on ramp. My truck suddenly loss power and the big rig damn near ran me off the road. I avoided an accident by going into the emergency lane. Another time this happened as I was passing truck traffic on an incline, and the truck suddenly loss power, other vehicles cued up behind me as the tractor trailers started passing on the right. I couldn’t get over and the truck kept losing power. Other cars driving in the left lane/fast lane were caught off guard and were emergency braking or swerving into the right lane as my truck slowed without brake lights to warn them. This is going to get someone killed.
The shudder and shaking I experienced yesterday was the worst I’ve witnessed. I am afraid there has to be other hidden damage caused by this.
amen brother!! Good luck on the replacement intercooler. I’ve been waiting a month and am being told that it’s still 2 months or more out.
Patrick let me know what codes they pull on your truck.they pulled codes 304,305 and I think 406 on mine. I read a funny post from a guy on another forum. He said why let a few people who are having issues discourage you from buying the Ecoboost . If 1 of 20 are having the issue it wasn’t a big deal. I wonder what he would be saying if his teenage son was the one in twenty this happened too.
Brian:
I will let you know about the codes. For those who think this is only affecting some vehicles, it is a design problem and given the right meteorological conditions, the engine is going to stall. I think I had over 10,000 miles on my truck before the first stall. Now with 24,000, I’ve had several. But I tend to do a a lot of long distance traveling, early mornings when it is foggy, or perhaps when it is raining which seems to be the right set of circumstances.
I too drive a lot of miles and every time it happens it is raining. Dealership is perplexed cause there is no TSB on 2013′s yet.
Brian,
I think we are all perplexed at this issue.
-Tim
The dealership pulled codes PO304 and PO306. The intercooler is being replaced with a new redesigned one. However, that is on back order until March. They are performing TSB 12-10-19 which is the first I’ve heard of it.
If I can remember after March, I will report back if I’m still having the issue.
Patrick,
Thanks for the update!
-Tim
The local Ford dealer fixed my truck on Thursday, March 7. They replaced the intercooler. Surprisingly it didn’t take very long. They said they’ve replaced a lot of them in the recent month.
Test drive. I took my truck out and put it through several accelerations. Some after driving steady, some from a dead stop. They truck never shuddered as expected because it is dry outside.
However, we have a rain system coming through this weekend and we are expecting up to 2 inches of rain over the next two days. If this TSB fixes my truck, we’ll all know very soon.
Keep your fingers crossed.
My last and final update …. I hope.
Yesterday we had pouring rain. I drove my truck on the interstate in the rain. It was foggy and there were low clouds. This is exactly the same conditions where my truck would shudder or stall. First thing I did was 0-100mph pedal to the floor acceleration test straight to the governor. No problems. Then I drove for about 40 miles on the interstate, constant speed (60mph) and then floored the pedal. No shudder. There was more than enough water and road spray. These are the environmental conditions which would make my truck shudder. The truck performed as it should. No issues noted.
As far as I am concerned, the TSB and new intercooler fixed the shudder issue.
I love my truck. Even after going through this hassle/issue with Ford, I’d still buy another Ford F150 Ecoboost. I am not paid by Ford.
thanks Patrick I appreciate your help on this matter. As well as all the others who shared opinions. Like Darrell and others. I think I will go ahead and make a deal on the EB i have been looking at. This will be my first ford and i think there will many more to follow. Thanks again, all the best.
tony
Thanks Patrick I truly hope it fixes the issue. I started running mid grade gas hoping it would help and have not had anymore issues. It has rained in Alabama nearly every day this month. I love Ford trucks so if it fixes the issue I would like to know.
I have a 2012 Eco Boost. It has the shuddering problem at the absolute worst times, like when you arte pulling out to pass someone. I live in the mountains of Tennessee where humidity isn’t a big problem, especially in the winter. My truck had one of its many shuddering instances about a month ago. This time it st error codes indicating that I was misfiring on cylinders 5 & 6 plus another random misfire. I took it in to my local dealership and they told me about the bulletin, but said it was drivable and they would call me when the parts came it. These parts include: a new catalytic converter, air diverter to put more air through the turbos, and a larger turbo intercooler. When last I checked, they were saying after March. That’s 3 months minimum.
As for moisture being the culprit, I call BS. The shuddering has happened to me on warm, dry summer days. The problem is that Ford didn’t do any field testing and the intercooler is undersized; therefore the air going into the turbos is too hot. This super hot intake air causes early detonation, which can damage the turbos, engine and apparently the catalytic converter. When the Ford dealer sent me home with a “drivable” truck, they told me to be careful not to give it too much gas. I finally got in touch with the regional rep for Ford and he said that despite my having paid for an extended warranty, I wasn’t entitled to a loaner, because my truck was drivable. I ask him if I could still pull my 8000+ lbs travel trailer through the mountains, he said that he wouldn’t recommend it. So much for the 11,300 lb max tow package.
I am trying desperately to get out from under this Ford POS. The problem is that even though I put a good bit down on this truck when I bought it 5 months ago, I’m still upside down on it, because the dealers are aware of this very widespread problem and they won’t give you anything for them in trade. I’m so desperate, I have even been looking at Toyota Tundras.
I hope you don’t get screwed like I did.
Sincerely,
Kevin Bridges
At least your dealerships are communicating with you what is gooing on. Wendle Ford in Spokane isnt even telling me anything excpet that they are waiting on parts. No estimated fix date, just keep driving this POS and any damage I am doing to the engine will show up after the MFG warranty has run out. I am thinking about filing a complaint with NHSTA.
Agreed. The problem is not the dealership per se. It’s ford. They have so many (100s of 1000s) with this problem that they can’t keep up. Apparently ford did 0 field testing and didn’t have anyone that understood engines working on this project. I have heard rumors of class action suits. If you go to the NHTSA and need backup let me know.
I’m a huge Ford fan but they got it wrong on the Ecoboost. It’s really is sad because those who do have lemons are good hard working Americans that have a hard enough time paying bills without the hardship of dealing with a poorly desined engine. Ford has some tough choices to make. Own up to their mistake and make it right or alienate some of their most loyal customers. Problem is not the issue so much as how it’s being handled. Ford if your listening a protocol needs implemented. Not one of denial but one of ownership. What if you showed up at the dealership with the issue and after they checked your vehicle and identified the issue they called you and said we know what the issue is but until we get it fixed your vehicle is not safe to drive. So we are going to furnish you a free rental truck until the repairs are made. Wouldn’t you feel better to know You bought a truck from a company that stands behind their product not matter what.
Preach it, brother! Ford is losing a bunch with my folks. My wife was test driving Edges, but now she’s looking at the Chevy Traverse. My dad was looking at upgrading to a new truck this year, he’s looking Chevy now. My parents neighbor owns his own construction company and he’s looking at phasing out the fords for Chevys. He’s been a ford guy for 50+ years. My family only converted about 20 years ago when I did. You know, back in the good old days when ford gave a damn about their customers. Losing a dozen sales from my family and friends probably doesn’t matter to ford, but if the thousands and thousands of folks that have this problem and get treated poorly react the same, then ford better hope Mr. Obama has a little bailout money left for them.
I came upon the EcoBoost issues while researching for my next vehicle purchase. Thank goodness I decided to read up. F-150 came with EB in MY2011, it’s now 2013 (MY2014 around the corner), and they have yet to field a proper intercooler fix for this? Curious, as the Taurus SHO doesn’t seem to have this issue. Haven’t read up on other 3.5EB platforms, but you’d think Ford would correct this before it became a huge negative PR issue, like what Toyota faced.
I’ll shop another brand. Not going to drop my hard-earned $$$ for something potentially less reliable than a much older used vehicle.
Now, having said that…
*IF* they get a TSB or recall that truly fixes this, I’d be all for grabbing an updated 2011 at a huge discount. It just stinks for the original owners that may have taken a big financial hit trading out of, or Lemon Lawing, the trucks
I got a phone call from the Executive office of Ford Motor Company today. This was in responses to a letter I sent Allan Mually and Bill Ford. The lady I spoke too was very nice and listened to my concerns. She also called the dealership and spoke with the Service Manager. I know cause he called me to let me know. I will say she was very polite and seemed like she really wanted to help. The letter I wrote was very polite and to the point. I sent the letter by e-mail and mailed two copies to two different addresses. Is my truck fixed absolutely not but the fact someone from the executive office of Ford called me was very impressive .If you are having issues with your truck and can’t get resolution at the local level I would suggest escalating your case to the highest levels of Ford. I believe they still want to do the right thing at the top. I will keep you posted.
i have been test driving 2013 f-150 trucks i have never owned a ford before, i am phasing out my gm trucks because i am sick of the bailout BS with GM. the Eco-boost is a great test drive but since reading this forum i am not sure i want the Eco-boost. is the problem with shuddering as widespread as it seems in this forum?
Tony,
You should be good to go with a 2013 model. I did some research myself, and as I understad it, the 2013s have a redesigned intercooler. There’s been TSBs for the prior year F150 EBs, to retrofit the chargecooler (or intercooler) with a an updated unit. However, from what I understand, the 2013s ihave redisgned piping to & from the cooler as well, something that couldn’t efficiently ($$$) be retrofit onto the 2011 & 12s. Also, keep in mine the symptoms typically only occur under certain circumstances. If you live in a very cold, or extremely dry environment, your exposure to the issue will be much less likely.
Thanks for the response Milton. I am attempting to make my decision on which engine to get in my 2013 Lariat. the Eco-Boost is a sweet test drive and is very responsive in city traffic. To me it is a better and more usable set up for city and freeway driving due to its outstanding throttle response. My needs won’t include much towing but will include a fair amount of city and in traffic driving. My decision is between the 5.0
V-8 and the Eco-Boost. I am told the Eco- Boost is rated about 1 mpg better than the 5.0 and that is so close that individual driving habit would make it a moot point regarding fuel mpg. The 5.0 is an reasonable engine on a test drive but lacks the great throttle response of the EB. What i am not interested in is having a bunch of trouble with an unproven system if that is what the Eco-Boost is and what it represents. While reading this forum i get pretty concerned about the negative comments about the Eco-Boost with its studdering problem. I wonder if there is truly a fix or redesign involving the 2013. I also wonder if the studdering problem is isolated or widespread.
Tony,
I totally agree with you, regarding an unproven powertrain. As reported here, the problem seems to still exist with the 2013s, so Ford may not have fully solved it yet. Just in case you don’t know, I’d like to share what I learned about the shuddering issue.
What happens is that the intercooler is actually *TOO* efficient. The issues tend to occur when the temperature & humidity, etc. put the intake air new dew point. What happens is that during sustained cruising, where the engine is not in boost, the intercooler will actually coole the air to the point that condensation forms, and falls out of the intake charge, since it’s not under boost, or maybe even in slight vacuum. This condensation “puddles” so to speak in the bottom of the intercooler. Once this has happened, if you suddenly apply throttle (to pass a slower vehicle, let’s say), the turbos spool into boost & suck the accumulated condensation into the engine. The sensors go haywire due to the H20 induction, and immediately go into “limp mode” to protect the engine. This is what causes the shudders. I’ve read of many people who were nearly rear-ended because they went to pass someone in these conditions, bogged into limp mode, and fast approacing traffic had to brake hard as their F-150 EB basically shut down in the left lane. Another example is someone that is on a long trip, in the conditions mentioned earlier, and then stop to refuel, eat, whatever. You leave the station, go to get back onto the freeway, gas it into boost, and BOOM, limp mode on the entry ramp or merge lane. Panic-scary stuff, to be sure.
However, also understand all the issues that have to line up for that worse case scenario. From what I understand, if you live in a very cold or dry climate, then the conditions will likely not be preset for the excessive condensation build up. Also, if you do not do extended cruising in low/no boost conditions, then condensation won’t build up enough to cause limp mode. It seems some of the people who experienced the issues, made simple modifications to their driving style, to account for the issue, understanding a full fix wasn’t available. They mentioned that on extended trips, they would occasionally vary their speed, put the engine into boost from time to time. That way, any minute amount of condensation build up is sucked in, and “processed”, rather than just collecting enought to puddle.
Ford’s first TSB on the 2011 &12s installed a plastic deflector shield in front of part of the intercooler. The understanding is that this was to slightly reduce its effectiveness, so that the air wouldn’t be over cooled. Didn’t work. Then they redesigned the intercooler itself, and the plumbing. That was installed in the 2013s. A redesigned intercooler was made to retro fit the 2011 &12s, but didn’t/couldn’t incorporate the new piping. It seems some 2013s may still have the issue. Someone posted here that they did, but I wasn’t researching 2013s. Myabe there’s an improvement, but not a total fix.
I live in a desert area, so wasn’t too concerned. I’d just go into boost every so often if on a trip, but my typical day is just about 5 miles to & from work.
If you still have concerns, and Ford doesn’t issue a complete resolution, then I’d just get the 5.0 V8. My primary interest in the 3.5 EB was it’s tunability. It’s a it faster stock than the 5.0, but very simple tuning makes it STUPID fast.
I looked into other 3.5 EB platforms, and latched onto the Taurus SHO. The SHO is a beast, but after all was said & done, I found I just didn’t like driving a full-sized truck, or car. Just more comfortable in a mid size sedan, thus the 2013 Fusion purchase.
Lastly, the 3.5 EB itself is a sound engine, the only issue I’ve seen at all, is the intercooler fitment on the F-150 platform. Taurus SHO, Lincoln MKS, Explorer, Flex, Lincoln MKT, etc. all seem to be good to go.
Sorry for the book, just wanted to put all I know out there.
Tony…
Brian (posting below) stated the redesigned intercooler that Ford installed under warranty appears to have fixed the issue with his 2013 EB F150.
If you truly want the EB, have the dealer do a recall/TSB check & physically verify that the truck you want has the upgraded intercooler already installed.
Not so fast. I bought a 2013 Ecoboost in Jan. Now have 7500 miles on it. Last week on I-95 in the rain, went to accelerate and had the shudder problem everyone is talking about in the 2011′s and 2012′s. Took it in to the dealer and was told Ford is working on a fix. They refalshed the computer and said that was all they could do for now. Haven’t had the chance to get in the truck and get on the throttle yet to see how it does….weather is dry now anyway.
I just got my 2013 f150 out of the shop after 24 days. Ford did the right thing took care of my rental and provided a free extended warranty at no cost. I had to write a few letters but the lady I spoke with was very professional. Now it was one big pain in the ass but they changed my inter cooler and I’ve had the truck back two weeks now with no issue so far. If your like me I believe nothing I read and half of what I see. I promise you the v8 is a better choice. With the right gear the 5.0 will get better mileage and repair costs will be much less. I’ve owned the 6.2 in a F150 and its a monster and will out pull any half ton on the road and got 14.5 mpg not towing. Regardless your still better off with a Ford than a government motors GM vehicle.
Dang…sorry to hear that Brian. I thought they’d sorted things out for 2013. Glad Ford at least took care of you. I agree the 5.0 would be a safer choice. I was shopping used, but after test driving, the F-150 just felt too big for me. Hadn’t owned a full size truck in ears. I ended up getting a new Fusion, as even the Taurus felt a little big to me. I just don’t wanna bump stuff when parking in really tight areas. I’ve been driving compact/mid-sized cars most my life.
Darrell,
Thanks for the info, I think i will opt for the EB engine on my purchase unless I learn something else. The explanation you gave seems very possible to me and is a likely description of what most comments cover regarding Eco-Boost complaints. I am very impressed with the concept of the engine and its operational functionality. Ford apparently has attempted to re-design at least some aspects of the EB induction system for the 2013 model to address the complaint. That tells me that Ford must be aware of the problem. I need to quiz my Dealer some more about this problem. Up to this point my salesman claims no knowledge of any such issue. I guess I will talk to the service manager tomorrow and continue my knowledge on this subject. I will ask about the TSB and its history as it relates to my 2013 vehicle. thanks for the enlightenment .
No problem at all, Tony!
Enjoy whatever you take home.
I received the new intercooler yesterday, unfortunately my warranty had run out by 3000km’s; 2011 F150 Ecoboost with 63000 km’s. It cost me $700 and at first didn’t fix the problem. With the intercooler problem i guess it burnt out 2 sparks plugs also. The dealership was nice enough to replace all 6 spark plugs for free and now the truck is running strong; I put it through it paces pretty hard yesterday when I got it back.
If you get the intercooler changed make sure they change the plugs also.
Good luck and long live the Ecoboost.
We are still having this problem and supposedly the intercooler part was replaced last month, don’t know really what was replaced as we did not look under the hood and looking through the opening below the grill, it just looks like a normal radiator. The truck has been in the shop all week with mechanics trying to duplicate the hesitation. Finally, it happened, but now Ford is the big pain, as they want all sorts of documentation as to what is coils/sensors they are replacing,.
Hello – I bought my wife a brand new 2012 F150 FX2 ecoboost and found that driving on the highway 60-65mph after a while of cruising, if i hit the gas pedal hard, on occasion the truck would buck back and forth, is this shudder??? Well my local ford dealership was very understanding and “familiar” with this happy to help. So they installed a new intercooler for a T-S-B and catalytic converter and fixed the spark plugs. This helped However this still did not fix it, and my wife was driving, lost power and almost side swiped by an aggressive trucker in a semi. So I googled CAC charge air cooler and i found this: http://www.full-race.com/store/ecoboost/ford-f-150-ecoboost-front-mount-intercooler-kit-1.html went and purchased an intercooler from “FULLRACE” in Pheenix Arizona They make a replacement intercooler that mounts up in the grilled, and no more possibility of condensation. 8 weeks of driving so far not one shudder. I will post back up in this summer if i remember with a longer term reviews
I own 2011 f150 with ecoboost. Also have so called shutter problem. 5 scary failures in 27 thousand miles. Last one was a VERY close shave with tractor trailer while trying to merge in front of him in using merge lane. The truck could not get over in another lane as traffic was very heavy. That was almost the big one. I was having visions of Daytona NASCAR wrecks. I’m really amazed no one has gotten killed yet. Also very surprised ford hasn’t had a recall for this engine. Money over safety I guess is fords legacy. To be fair I’m sure other manufacturers are just as bad. I was stupid to buy such new technology, but I just crossed my fingers and went for it. Now I hear cars and trucks from ford 3 yrs later are still having this problem. Ford wake up and fix this. U guys are just digging yourselves a bigger hole to fall in. When the networks gets wind of this your screwed.